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  • Making my case! (Long story) 1 1
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Author Topic: Making my case! (Long story)  (Read 1553 times)

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Offline Machines.

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Making my case! (Long story)
« on: August 08, 2013, 12:57:48 AM »
I'll get started by saying I think fastest map is balanced.
However, I would like to see a 4 player fastest map or 6 player map.

There is a couple of problems on fastest map.
1. Mid left or mid right base while your opponent is above you.
To top it all off! He's going to turtle and play super defensive and rush nukes/guardians/carriers/drops/tanks.
2. Build order loss. ZvP. Let's say the Z is scouting, P scouting as well. They don't know each others races (P is 4 gating). Z is unlucky to scout the P 4gating hand P is able to break the Zergs choke or do a lot run by.
Let's be honest. How many times have a Zerg player lost because of late scouts on both players.
It's like pick your poison. Hurry up and sunken hard with a few zerglings. (Blindly) Or be greedy and get your fourth hatch (including main and choke) after your first sunken.

If I've made my case and didn't bore you, I would be willing to try (not change) a few different things on fastest map for an example...
1v1 Fastest map but on a smaller space.
4 player fastest map.
6 player fastest map (with out the mid left and mid right) while the top mid and bottom mid have a choke like the corner locations.
Or maybe keep the same 8 player format for fastest but the mid bases have the same corner choke. Maybe a bigger map. 192x192.
Also, I wouldn't mind seeing two mineral patches for each base, (one above the main, one below the main) technically, bottom base players can get an extra 8-32 minerals compared to players above them.
Last but not least! I would like to see a UMS UGL Fastest map in case people want to obs (and the players are okay with that) so when the game starts, the players don't need to vision or ally anyone, while the obs can have AC chat on with each other.

I'm happy with fastest as it is. I threw these ideas out there for some perspective on a different variation on fastest. :)

Online koN

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Re: Making my case! (Long story)
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2013, 01:44:54 PM »
I'll get started by saying I think fastest map is balanced.
However, I would like to see a 4 player fastest map or 6 player map.

There is a couple of problems on fastest map.
1. Mid left or mid right base while your opponent is above you.
To top it all off! He's going to turtle and play super defensive and rush nukes/guardians/carriers/drops/tanks.
2. Build order loss. ZvP. Let's say the Z is scouting, P scouting as well. They don't know each others races (P is 4 gating). Z is unlucky to scout the P 4gating hand P is able to break the Zergs choke or do a lot run by.
Let's be honest. How many times have a Zerg player lost because of late scouts on both players.
It's like pick your poison. Hurry up and sunken hard with a few zerglings. (Blindly) Or be greedy and get your fourth hatch (including main and choke) after your first sunken.

If I've made my case and didn't bore you, I would be willing to try (not change) a few different things on fastest map for an example...
1v1 Fastest map but on a smaller space.
4 player fastest map.
6 player fastest map (with out the mid left and mid right) while the top mid and bottom mid have a choke like the corner locations.
Or maybe keep the same 8 player format for fastest but the mid bases have the same corner choke. Maybe a bigger map. 192x192.
Also, I wouldn't mind seeing two mineral patches for each base, (one above the main, one below the main) technically, bottom base players can get an extra 8-32 minerals compared to players above them.
Last but not least! I would like to see a UMS UGL Fastest map in case people want to obs (and the players are okay with that) so when the game starts, the players don't need to vision or ally anyone, while the obs can have AC chat on with each other.

I'm happy with fastest as it is. I threw these ideas out there for some perspective on a different variation on fastest. :)

You're basically wanting to take away aspects of the game that make it fun and challenging. You're asking to take scouting away from the game and also asking to take certain openings/strategies out of the game. Opening with a 4 gate as a protoss has its pros and cons. If you're able to scout the Z at a good time before he scouts you chances are you're going to take his choke and probably the game. But if a Zerg or Terran scout you before you scout them it gives them time to prepare to stop the 4 gate and if a 4gate fails for a protoss it puts them very far behind and is difficult to come back and win from if no damage is done off the 4 gate. This game is all about scouting and strategy and knowing who you're playing against and knowing there tendencies. Yes mid spots do suck but they aren't impossible to win games with. If you have someone above you, you're going to usually try and do some sort of rush strategy so the game doesn't go to long game. I understand where you're coming from but these conversations have been had for years and nothing is ever changed because it would take away from the point of the game by taking away scouting and strategies. If we only had 4 corner spawns on fastest every game would be easily 30mins long and frankly that isn't fun. The only option I see in your post that is a good idea is making it a UMS map for observers so other then that everything else can't be changed as for my reasons explained above.

Also your first statement by saying "I believe fastest map is balanced" goes against everything you talk about in this forum. We all know fastest map is not balanced and you talk about the reasons why it isn't. So I don't know how you can start your argument off with that then go completely against it

Offline Dano

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Re: Making my case! (Long story)
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2013, 01:58:29 PM »
machine, for ur info, we got that map in europé its called  pgl map, of fastest flee map. the things u describe it is pretty similar the maps alot smaller, all Island got the same choke wide, no fun at all..... u dont change the map just like that.. who cares...
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Offline dirl

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Re: Making my case! (Long story)
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2013, 02:52:49 PM »
I think a problem with an observer UMS is that it would have to be made with 4 player slots to allow 2v2 games, which only leaves room for 4 observers in 1v1 games. If you made two maps, people who play both 1s and 2s would get annoyed having to switch between them.

UMS replays also seem to break for me unless I watch them at 1x speed.

Offline Machines.

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Re: Making my case! (Long story)
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2013, 05:23:39 PM »
machine, for ur info, we got that map in europé its called  pgl map, of fastest flee map. the things u describe it is pretty similar the maps alot smaller, all Island got the same choke wide, no fun at all..... u dont change the map just like that.. who cares...
"who cares" I said I would be willing to try (Not change).
I never said to make all the chokes wide.
I care, and obviously you care to take the time to write a paragraph.

Offline La.Revelations

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Re: Making my case! (Long story)
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2013, 08:34:38 PM »
This has been talked about for years and in the end it will never change. After all this time nobody wants to get used to a new map.

Offline Machines.

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Re: Making my case! (Long story)
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2013, 10:01:27 PM »
Would anyone be wiling to try any of the stipulations I've managed? Like for fun. :P

Offline Dano

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Re: Making my case! (Long story)
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2013, 01:18:28 AM »
.l.
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Offline Dano

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Re: Making my case! (Long story)
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2013, 01:19:02 AM »
thats how much they would like to try it out, hahaha.....
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Offline SilenT.BaNg

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Re: Making my case! (Long story)
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2013, 01:29:17 AM »
personally im a person that absolutely hates certain spots in the map such as mid left or mid right with an opponent aboev you but you need to understand that good players CAN play around it and sometimes use it to their advantage especially in 2v2.

for example, lets say im protoss mid left and ur above me with terran or zerg in maybe 2v2.  me and my partner will use the advantage that i can get my units to my choke faster than u can (since im mid and ur corner) and we'll cannon u and then i will get a mineral expo so u can't abuse me that bad.

that's just one example of getting around certain situations.  obviously in 1v1 its much harder but ull typically see lets say mid left terran and top left protoss, the terran player will more than likely play aggresively (Tank push) vs the protoss player to try and get early-mid game win rather than letting opponent abuse him in long game.

u just can't take these things out it just doesnt work like that lol